Comments

Comment 1 | From: Gary | Date: 11 November 2010, 19:04

What you just said. Yup, that.

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Comment 2 | From: Jules | Date: 11 November 2010, 19:05

Well said. Both groups are completely unrepresentative of mainstream opinion.

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Comment 3 | From: sariBird | Date: 11 November 2010, 19:28

yep...indeed.

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Comment 4 | From: sally simpson | Date: 11 November 2010, 19:41

well said! racism takes many forms - we need to be alert and aware of all of them!

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Comment 5 | From: Steve Silver | Date: 11 November 2010, 19:57

Good post. I came under criticism from some on the left when I pointed out - and they took up the notion - that there was a symbiotic relationship between the Islamists and the BNP some years ago at the Parliamentary Inquiry into Antisemitism. These groups really do thrive off opposing each other and yet in reality they are just mirror images of each other.

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Comment 6 | From: Otto C | Date: 11 November 2010, 22:12

Thugs, all of them.

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Comment 7 | From: Radiomother | Date: 11 November 2010, 22:45

The fact that both sides must be called to account as endangering world peace must be said over and over again. Thanks for this.

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Comment 8 | From: Adam | Date: 11 November 2010, 22:52

Isn't what the Islamic extremists did tantamount to Holocaust denial?

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Comment 9 | From: Dave N | Date: 12 November 2010, 02:05

Very sensible comments. The evil spreads from both sides and has to be resisted by the sensible and moderate majority.

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Comment 10 | From: keg1983 | Date: 12 November 2010, 02:40

yes both sides are thugs out looking for trouble but i am sorry there are so many different people coming into our country for shelter and safety and a better way of life, but yet dont want to respect our views our beleifs and many do all they can to disrespect it! I am no racist i have friends in many walks of life but if this behaviour continues then i beleive that if your not british you shouldn't be here, more so those who disrespect us! We always here bout how we have to respect there ways but so should they ours or face deportation

[Nick replies:

but we are talking about a handful of people here. Even the Luton event, which kicked off the EDL last year, was attended by fewer than 10 people. I think we need to keep things in perspective and remember that the actions of a few do not reflect a wider community. It's like saying that every Catholic should have been held responsible for the IRA bombing campaigns or every white British person should be held to account for the actions of the EDL.

There are enough British-born people who disrespect the law and others. Should we throw them out as well? And if so, where to?]

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Comment 11 | From: Chris Fletcher | Date: 12 November 2010, 05:57

Bloody hell it took you long enough to say anything about the muslims extremists.

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Comment 12 | From: eddie mcnulty | Date: 12 November 2010, 08:37

A plague on both houses? The EDL would not exist if there were no muslim extremists in this counntry to start with.

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Comment 13 | From: Danny | Date: 12 November 2010, 08:46

Thanks for this blog, ot's good to know that at least some people have a sensible view on this kind of thing!

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Comment 14 | From: Saj | Date: 12 November 2010, 09:26

Im surprised the MAC (formerly al muhajeroon MI5-Anjums mob) managed to muster 30 protesters usually its the same dirty dozen. The MAC and the EDL are made for each other and the EDL have now just boosted their support massively however the EDL supporters have all conveniently forgotten that within the last few months their members burnt a copy of the Quran and the other incidents of pigs heads being left of various Muslim properties.

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Comment 15 | From: Jeannie | Date: 12 November 2010, 09:30

This is so stupid. I read an article on FB yeasterday about all of the Muslims that fought with the alied services in both World Wars. Forgotten Heroes - The Muslim Contribution | Special Feature | Archives | November 2009 www.emel.com All sides suffered - are these groups above so full of hate that they can't see further than the ends of their own noses.We were allies then, why not now, we are supposedly better educated now. Waste of time, energy and Police funding.

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Comment 16 | From: John Mullen | Date: 12 November 2010, 10:40

Just because their messages appear to be symmetrical does not mean that the organizations are symmetrical. Far-right ideas about muslims are rising across Europe and in several countries are represented in parliament. The result is waves of racist attacks, sometimes of great violence. Muslim extremist ideas like the ones shown in the demo do not have anything like the same influence. That is why the EDL have to be thrown off the streets. The more demorcatic forces mobilize to clear them off the streets, the less space there will be for jihadists to claim "we are the only ones who defend muslims".

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Comment 17 | From: Anthony | Date: 12 November 2010, 14:33

"Muslim extremist ideas like the ones shown in the demo do not have anything like the same influence." Influence depends on the audience. These extremist groups both contribute propaganda to the gullible who may go on to do violent acts (London bombings, or acts like those BNP supporters who have been convicted of planning terrorist acts.) Both groups hope to stoke up the hate, and want violent responses in order to recruit. Both should be opposed. Fascism, be it based on religion, race, or nationality, should be opposed in ALL forms. By allowing the EDL to go unopposed we allow them to represent themselves as an authentic voice of the UK - which they are not. By allowing extremist Islamist groups to go unopposed, we allow them to represent themselves as voices of Islam - making it more difficult for the vast majority of Muslims who have no truck with these groups to stand out. Double-standards also give the BNP and EDL propaganda to recruit. Oppose all fascists. ¡No pasarán!

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Comment 18 | From: Anthony | Date: 12 November 2010, 14:43

It should be remembered that the biggest victims of extremist Islamists over the past 20 years have been Muslims themselves. You only have to look at the recent bombings of mosques in Pakistan to see this. By opposing such religious bigots is not the same as opposing the Muslim community. If you make that mistake, you are accepting the extremists' narrative. No-one would suggest opposing the BNP is offensive to the white community.

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Comment 19 | From: Trish Elphinstone | Date: 12 November 2010, 15:58

Tolerance and respect has to applies both groups. Extremism, in whatever form, is unacceptable to decent people. We must remember that these are a minority and treat them as the social pariahs that they are.

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Comment 20 | From: Rob Grayson | Date: 12 November 2010, 16:16

"Muslim extremist ideas like the ones shown in the demo do not have anything like the same influence." The growing number of British-born Muslims who are joining the Jihadi cause, both here and abroad, attests to the contrary. The indoctrination and incitement of hatred coming from both sides is harmful to society.

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Comment 21 | From: Paul | Date: 12 November 2010, 16:33

<i> A plague on both houses? The EDL would not exist if there were no muslim extremists in this counntry to start with. </i> But the EDL leadership didn't come out of nowhere and they had a track record in far-right extremism going back over the past decade. The EDL are against all muslims, not just extremists, as evidenced by the aging skinhead on the megaphone at yesterday's protest shouting slurs aginst Islam as a religion and the Prophet Muhammad. The HopenotHate position of opposition to all extremism makes sense to me.

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Comment 22 | From: Englishman In New Shoes | Date: 12 November 2010, 16:37

Hate isn't just from the EDL/BNP, the Islamist extremists are just as opposed to a multicultural diverse Britain as they are, and judging by their (MAC) tone on Afghanistan, peace in that region cannot be further from their warmongering little minds.

Hope not Hate's position is unique, as it opposes hate without taking sides (unlike the Desmond-ite press which only give one side of the story) And, Eddie McNulty, the EDL primarily exist so troublemakers can meet, get tanked up, behave like retards and cause major headaches for the police.

Fighting what they may say is Islamic extremism (but what they mean as anyone who opposes their viewpoint) comes way after the violence (and dragging the National Flag throuth the s**t of course!) But well done HnH for opposing Islamic extremism as well as far right 'white nationalism'.

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Comment 23 | From: colin muir | Date: 12 November 2010, 17:55

So, basically what you are saying is, That if the E.D.L did not exist,that these extremists would not have burned a symbol of the gratitude of the majority of people in this country?

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Comment 24 | From: wulf | Date: 12 November 2010, 21:12

The two do indeed feed of each other, demonstratons like that of MAC do little to recruit muslims to their cause, the resulting distrust of muslims by the rest of society aided by counter demonstrations by EDL and others along with racist attacks is what helps the recruitment.This leads to attacks by extremist muslims ( such as the attemted murder of a labour mp)which PROVES what the EDL etc have been saying thus helping their recruitment.

This polarisation of society must be opposed, it is what led to the holocaust and the jewish people weren't fighting back. do we want tribal warfare and martial law here? i don't think so. fight back against it in the best possible way, say hello to a muslim/ non muslim on the bus , help someone of a different faith with a door or their shopping, especially you youmgsters, get to know each other, ok going to the pub together could prove awkward, but take a minute out to smile. oh and the EDL is anti british as well as anti islamist so you irish , scots and welsh already have something in common with the muslims

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Comment 25 | From: Paul | Date: 13 November 2010, 00:14

@ColinMuir I don't think HnH are saying that. Tiny groups of Extremist Islamists predate the EDL and would be engaging in their puerile antics anyway. What is clear is that both the MAC and EDL feed off each other and are very much like two groups of football hooligans who exist to oppose each other, while people on the outside just view them as equal groups of pathetic idiots. (I wouldn't be surprised if the leaders of the MAC and EDL were on speaking terms, arranging "meets" and co-ordinating activities)

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Comment 26 | From: angela | Date: 13 November 2010, 00:45

i am white british and abhor extremism of any kind, in no place does the koran advocate violence but in the bible you read "an eye for an eye" everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and opinions but they should never be forced on another, i have no religion, i just believe in the human race, let real people decide, not men in suits or religious leaders, bnp are probably the greatest hate campaigners in britain, but if they looked back far enough how many of them are truly british, if all foreigers should leave britain should it not follow that all whites should leave america, canada, australia, new zealand, south africa etc , cant have it all ways

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Comment 27 | From: Englishman In New Shoes | Date: 13 November 2010, 08:03

What is also worth noting about the appearance of the Islamists' hatred is the shift away from the sacrasanct nature of Remembrance of those who gave their lives in two world wars in defeat of fascism, but also the embrace by the Royal British Legion of the 'Afghan generation' thus politicising the poppy. Despite the constant 'spin' to the contrary by the right-wing press, the Afghan conflict is a deeply unpopular and unnecessary action (why do you think the BNP are using it to garner support?). This is my first year of wearing the white poppy, remembering those who have died as a consequence of wars both un-necessary without either the politics, the Cheryl Cole celebrity baloney, and the promotion of peace through constructiveness not militarism nationalism or religious fundamentalism. And I agree, the far right and Islamist hate preachers are so far down the road of hate, they do have lots and lots in common. Nick Griffin inviting Sheikh Abu Izzadeen to a dinner party....now that IS plausible.....

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Comment 28 | From: Englishman.....again | Date: 13 November 2010, 08:23

Another interesting point, the MAC wallies had 'Down with Democracy' placards. Remind you of a certain BNP founder, John Tyndall? Or perhaps Lecomber or Collett?? Alike indeed. I remember once a few years ago on the Links page of the BNP website a link to the Black nationalist/supremacist Nation of Islam in the USA Now, that's why we have a Remembrance Day....our wonderful multicultural and liberal Britain came at a human price.

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Comment 29 | From: Usmaan Omer | Date: 13 November 2010, 19:41

Great article. Both sets of groups are not just a cancer in our country but also in the world. Those people (MAC) have time and time again brought shame to the name of a peace-loving religion which is Islam and these people must be stopped. However, stupidity cannot be met with stupidity and the EDL are a poor excuse for defending this great nation. Stupidity must be confronted with messages of peace either way and that way we can make a better society. Well Done Hope not Hate.

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Comment 30 | From: Lynn (Liverpool) | Date: 13 November 2010, 23:07

First thing to acknolwedge is the diversity among Muslim groups (MAC is a minority outfit). Second, there is a remarkable lack of understanding amongst the majority white population and amongst those in MAC that the poppy as a symbol of remembrance emerged in the aftermath of the First World War. If those who supported burning the poppy had been to the Western Front, notably to Ypres (on the Menin gate memorial to the fallen without known graves in particular), and seen the enormous contribution to that conflict (let alone later ones) which Muslims made they many not react in such a way. The memorial at Ypres is as impressive as it is sad. It is there for all of us to remember the sacrifice that so many have made - of all faiths - for feedom. Go too to other cemetries in Europe and see the contribution that all faiths have made in the fight against oppression (and facism in the Second World War). We should remember them - all of them for all of us.

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Comment 31 | From: Jav | Date: 15 November 2010, 16:23

Thanks for this Nick. Im a Muslim and I and every Muslim I know totally reject the hateful lunancy of MAC as much as the EDL. The contributions of Muslims like Noor Inayat Khan amongst thousands of others must really mess with their heads!

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Comment 32 | From: Khalid | Date: 19 November 2010, 08:54

And what took you so long to figure this out that Islam is a rightwing fascistic creed? I grew up in Islam and I know. The fact that the left supports Islamism is considered so foreign and despicable from the place that I come from. But here, there is an unwritten marriage between Islamic fascism and the left. And it is taking forever for the left in this country to figure out which side is up and which is down. So it's good to see the change of heart - but why did it take so long? It was a no-brainer, you know.

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Comment 33 | From: Robbie | Date: 23 November 2010, 17:34

Great article; this stance must be adopted universally! The two groups must be treated as one and the same, this is the only way to tackle them. If not, one group will appear favoured and the other persecuted, partially legitimizing both in different ways and attracting more support to both consequently. For the left, cultrual relativism can only be taken so far before we must say No! this not Islam, or Arabic Culture, but simply barbarism. Peace.

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