Comments

Comment 1 | From: Harry | Date: 10 October 2009, 19:22

If the EDL were footed a bill for the cost of the policing, special transport arrangements, and public liability insurance, and any loss of trading for local business, this would put the EDL out of action, as I said before. It would be like tax bills were for Al Capone!

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Comment 2 | From: Siobhan | Date: 10 October 2009, 19:57

Our side needs to get a clearer message out and be more organized. Today, some of the folks at the counter demo were chanting things like, 'If it weren't for the coppers you'd be dead.' And some really tried to push past police to get into a physical confrontation with the EDL.

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Comment 3 | From: juohn tamburri | Date: 10 October 2009, 20:06

just sad that this good country people are joining the bnp, and the edl because there seems to be no hope with our mps to do something about immigration.This country has given refuge to millions but it cannot go on at the rate it is as its a breading ground for hatered on all sides.Lets all work together for a better future for all people of every race and be proud to call ourselves British as if we dont i fear the worse

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Comment 4 | From: Juan | Date: 10 October 2009, 20:16

Hola, I've just got back from Manchester and would put the EDL's numbers at 400 maximum. The UAF share this view. However, for most of the day the EDL we're present in much smaller numbers (50 - 100) and required massive police protection to keep them from serious harm. We should keep things in perspective. Today was the EDL's best chance of drawing a big crowd. They've had months to plan for it, there was no domestic Premiership football to distract their followers and they were heading for Manchester on the crest of a wave of publicity. A national mobilisation under these conditions saw them pull out less than half of the numbers they themselves had predicted. Anti-fascists, on the other hand, mobilised mainly in the North West at much shorter notice, with local Muslim leaders telling people to stay away from the protest, and yet still outnumbered the EDL four or five to one. The EDL provocations will certainly go on, but the anti-fascist movement must continually build greater and greater numbers against them. EDL Nazis represent no-one but themselves. We can draw on huge support, especially among the unions if we mobilise correctly, and can face them down. At the same time we can build a massive anti-fascist movement for the coming contest with the BNP in the next election. Salud! Juan

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Comment 5 | From: Colin | Date: 10 October 2009, 20:37

700? That's a hell of a lot of right-wing thugs. Surely, it's time to rethink the policy of discouraging Muslim youth from attending counter-demonstations. Anti-fascists need not only numbers but muscle if we are to avoid handing the EDL control of the streets.

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Comment 6 | From: harry | Date: 10 October 2009, 20:51

a worrying number of locals who came out in support of the e.d.l.and why sound surprised.wake up.

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Comment 7 | From: Mr Smith | Date: 10 October 2009, 21:41

I'm confused, you lay the blame for any violence squarely at the door of the EDL. You suppose that they were "looking for trouble". You claim that some were known Nazis. Can you name some of them then? Can you explain how you came to your conclusions? Perhaps you can explain them in the light of this quote : "UAF spokesman Mike Gilligan said: "It was a tremendously successful day for the anti-racist movement. They (EDL) were only able to protest because of the police that stood between them and 2,000 anti-racists. They were run out of town". They were run out of town and only able to protest because the police were protecting them from the UAF? So who was looking for violence? It seems that the UAF were very clearly after violence. And so on ot the costs issue. How much would it have cost if the UAF had decided to hold their demo on a different day, how much cheaper had they decided to allow the EDL the basic right of freedom of speech. Why confront the EDL? Why not allow them to demonstrate quietly and peacefully and then hold an anti demo the following week? Or is it the aim of an "anti fascist" to act like a true fascist and block free speech when it does not fit in with their world view? What have the UAF achieved other than to try to be threatening, cause the police a hard time and look for trouble? Incidentally why were some of the UAF wearing T Shirts that celebrated the tragedy of 9/11? What sort of message is that to give?

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Comment 8 | From: David S | Date: 10 October 2009, 21:42

One comment on the MEN's live news feed for me said it all: 'God Save Manchester!' This is a city that has a history of social reform, struggling for the rights of the little men of this world and whose heart is equally as nonconformist and bohemian as it is down to earth and modern British. It is a city that didn't want this EDL hatefest in the first place and will unite against any attempts to repeat this fairly and squarely behind HnH. We saw white black and Asian stand in unity, with Cable Street in their minds. And STILL the BBC carry interviews with EDL members who claim to be not racist or Nazi. The more we see of the EDL the more we don't like what we see of them and the more exposed as liars they are.

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Comment 9 | From: me | Date: 10 October 2009, 22:26

the edl wouldnt need police if the so called anti fascists didnt show up and tried to stop them from saying thier very simple message! do these people actually support people who will openly wage hate campaigns against britain? at the moment that seems to be the case!

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Comment 10 | From: Harry | Date: 10 October 2009, 23:01

Thanks Mister EDL Neo-Nazi troll (original pseudonym "me" for repeating the usual Daily Mail comments section trolling bhullshit about anti-fascist protestors being anti-British. Supporting Adolf Hitler and the bloody SS is about as unBritish as you can get. You probably tell your friends the Holocaust didn't happen, you and your dispicable racist ilk. British Muslims are patriotic as everyone else, and have a right to worship just like other faiths, so your numbskulls who held up the "No More Mosques" banners were showing their contempt for multicultural Britain in a truly fascist way, so please don't contort the truth about how we are the fascists and you EDL scumbags are angels purer than the driven snow. And before you start reading from the script about how the EDL are not racist, or nazis, and how lovely and hippyishly multicultural the fascist EDL are, there was many straight-armed Nazi salutes today at the fascist march, and many known white supremacists were at the event. A key EDL organiser from Birmingham was arrested for race hate literature and for possessing a large amount of charlie. Oh, just in-case you, Mister Troll are Trevor (LiesThroughHisTeeth) Kelway, I've seen your Facebook page, and your top friends who have SS insignias such as BNP candidate Atack from Dewsbury. It's getting late in the day, and Hope Not Hate allowed this braindead trolling through just to show the world how the evil racist EDL scum waste their stupid little lives away by trolling the internet with lies and distortions. Switch off your computer and take up trainspotting!!!!!!!

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Comment 11 | From: Steve | Date: 10 October 2009, 23:36

UAF have to accept responsibility for a great deal of the cost of policing to days protest. It would be far more sensible to allow the police to do their job without having to worry about counter demos and associated hot heads that get involved. I also think these counter demos play into the EDL's hands. They would get very bored of meeting up , standing around for 3 hours and then going home if you lot were not there for them to chant at or chase around! let the police do their job, and stop providing the entertainment for the EDL!

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Comment 12 | From: Harry | Date: 11 October 2009, 00:10

There's more trolls on here than Lord Of The Rings, trying to disuade Hope Not Hate and the UAF from organising future protests. We must have really put the wind down the neo-Nazis, for all this pointless trolling. The truth is, without the thousands of anti-racist protesters, the thugs would have attacked passing Asian people with inpunity. Stand-offs are much preferrable to unilateral violence, even if scuffles result, given the hardcore nature of the visitors, many of whom have criminal records for violence longer than their arms. So ignore the trolls (by the way the 9/11 t-shirts were a myth, they didn't exist). Keep up the good work. The more white supremacists you piss off by successfully campaigning against neo-fascist groups like the BNP or the EDL, the more these losers feel compelled to post lies and bullsh*t on your excellent blog! Love and Peace, Harry!

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Comment 13 | From: Moondog | Date: 11 October 2009, 00:37

I really think anti-fascists are playing a dangerous game by this constant insistence that the EDL are right-wing extremists. It reminds me of America's implacable dismissals of Castro's early protestations that he wasn't a communist - we risk creating a similarly self-fulfilling prophecy. I make no distinction between fascists and islamists - both groups seek to deprive us of our freedom as we define it. I have been out leafleting for HNH in the past and will do so again. However, the prevailing mood among anti-fascists smacks of the current fashion for scapegoating the white working class for all of society's ills and I will have no part of it.

Nick replies: Hi John. We have been careful to try and explain the nature of the EDL. We have never called the organisation fascist or nazi because it clearly isn't. However, at its core, the EDL is driven by racism and a dislike of Muslim. In the next issue of Searchlight we shall be revealing the politics of those driving the EDL forward.

However, I do agree that we have to be careful not to demonise white working class people as a whole.

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Comment 14 | From: dave roberts | Date: 11 October 2009, 02:20

All the UAF need to do is stand up to aggressive supremacist Islamic organisations and the need for losers like the EDF will disappear....don't complain about the EDL - steal their thunder and challenge Islamic organisations that use confrontation language towards non-muslims and minorities like homosexuals.....

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Comment 15 | From: Fos | Date: 11 October 2009, 03:04

You UAF people seem to be openly calling for violence against the EDL on a blog called Hope Not Hate. The very name of your blog is the most laughable hypocrisy. I read that the UAF mob are actually endorsed by both Labour and Conservative members. Do you know now why more and more of us refuse to vote? Mainstream politics is no longer interested in anything even resembling truth. The government and the political mainstream have failed to provide stability. The police actually seem to be the only ones who are maintaining a sense of fairness at the moment. As a minarchist I support the police in this. Free speech needs to be protected from the fanaticism of both right and left. I have no hope whatsoever that my message will be absorbed by anti-facists. But maybe others who come across this blog will agree with me that freedom and tolerance for the opinions of others are the only civilising factor.

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Comment 16 | From: Danny | Date: 11 October 2009, 04:02

How can you call us Nazi's? Did you not see the Black & White unite signs? Also their was quite a few black lads with us. Oh yeah and what kind of Nazi's brandish a flag of David? Sort your heads out.

Nick replies: I have never called the EDL a fascist organisation. You have active and known fascists in your ranks and this was evident again yesterday with some more nazi salutes being thrown. The EDL is an anti-Muslim and so racist network of mainly football hooligans.

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Comment 17 | From: ibs | Date: 11 October 2009, 04:34

Just thought i'd get my two pennies worth in. I'm a young muslim from manchester and this is the first time i've ever attended such an event. I know the muslim youth were asked to stay away from the event but i've been looking at the edl forums and all the racist crap on their for a few days now and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the edl is full of violent nazi scum. I decided to attend if only to protect any muslim women from having their hijabs ripped off and being spat on etc etc by these thugs. I'm glad i turned up and i apologise for the lack of muslim youth present on the day, thankfully we did manage to rustle up some of the lads once we knew what sort of scum were on the rampage. rest assured, there won't be any complacancy next time. Can i also say how thankfull i am for the uaf being present. had they not been around i can pretty much gurantee things would have been alot worse. There's no space for neo-nazis woman bullys in manchester. we aint scared of you nor will we run. This time was a taster, next time will be the full lesson. Respect to the uaf and all those who stood alongside them. Peace

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Comment 18 | From: Daryl... | Date: 11 October 2009, 05:04

The real tragedy of the UK is that extremist parties like the BNP have ruined any chance for normal people to voice their just and warranted concerns over extremist Muslim activists in the UK. I still remember people dressed as suicide bombers in the middle of London threatening murder to anyone who insulted their prophet character. I also still remember that scores of people died after publications of a cartoon. (A CARTOON!!) And that the western media was absolutely spineless in following suit and not reproducing it anywhere. We have to reach back about ten years to where extremists and their mindless actions would not threaten our freedom of expression, and our ability to freely speak about what is on our minds. Daryl...

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Comment 19 | From: Joo Joo | Date: 11 October 2009, 07:59

There is a big difference between patriotism and racism, It seems that in this day it is seen as racist to be a patriot. To "love" England as the US loves the USA is seen as racist. I believe that immigration is too high in this country, I also believe this, Islamic people tend not integrate with our culture, as they have their own laws in place, and generally disregard ours. Sharia Law in place in the UK? In time maybe. Im not racist, I have asian and black friends, but what the EDL are saying is control immigration, just like France, Spain, Germany, Italy and all over Europe. It will always take something like the EDL to get control of this situation as the three main parties will not tackle it through scared of being racists.

Nick replies: Who is saying that to 'love' England is to be racist? I am not. What I do oppose are the narrow-minded bigots in the BNP and other such groupings who say that certain people cannot be British or English because of the colour of their skin - regardless if they were born here or have a British passport.

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Comment 20 | From: David S | Date: 11 October 2009, 09:01

The bottom line is that in 2009, we are not prepared to stand idly by and allow in OUR towns and cities fascist hooligans, some dressed in balaclavas, combat gear and with racial conflict foremost in their minds (not love for England/Britain) siegheiling and giving Nazi salutes in the streets, like the National Front in the 1970s and the Blackshirts/British Union of Fascists in the 1930s. The evidence is clear on the amateur footage I have seen. We cannot, especially as we have just commemmorated 70 years since the start of ww2 on Sept 3rd, 1939 and will be remembering people who died in that war to protect us from the fascists in exactly one month from now. Mr. Smith talks of allowing the EDL to demonstrare quietly and peacefully, well two things are certain. 1. They (the EDL) would still need the packs of police to protect them from the shoppers and tourists. 2. Even without the presence of UAF, HOPE not hate and all the other counter demonstrators, the hooligans would still siegheil, shout racist slogans at people, parade round in their paramilitary style uniforms behave in true ASBO fashion and throw coins and missiles, after the usual getting tanked up on cheap foreign beer in any pub that will welcome their business above the safety of their regulars and genuine visitors. Hooligans cause mayhem as sure as cows chew the cud and cats meow! Even their slovenly singing of the national anthem is imho a gross insult to our head of state. We saw the real 'English' Defence League on show yesterday.

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Comment 21 | From: Ben | Date: 11 October 2009, 11:00

"Mr Smith", care to provide proof of 9/11 T-shirts? I expect nothing less as you like to ask the same.

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Comment 22 | From: Lee | Date: 11 October 2009, 11:33

There would not have been any need for a lot of policing if the UAF did not show up, why not have UAF pay the bill... They are government funded...

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Comment 23 | From: Samantha | Date: 11 October 2009, 15:29

If the UAF hasn't turned up, the football holigans and hardcore racists would indulge in large-scale fights, race-baiting and "p*ki bashing" (as they call it) with every Asian man, woman or child passing by. They are criminal-minded hooligans, and without a strong pressence they would revert to the law of the jungle, beating-up, stabbing and killing people for the colour of their skin.

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Comment 24 | From: Samantha Again! | Date: 11 October 2009, 17:20

I have just come across the Sun newspaper website where an outspoken typical racist EDL member from Manchester "Aberkanackerhas" posted this: - 10/10/2009 18:10:20 Re:EDL v. UAF in Manchester Where do you get 1.6 mill edge ? there are more than 3 million and they are breeding like rabbits . You need to get into your head the majority of the British people are sick of the moslems and their demands for sharia law etc this is our country and our laws if they dont like it they should go to pakistan with their p@ki brothers". http://www.thesun.co.uk/discussions/posts/list/30/EDL_v~46~_UAF_in_Manchester-224677.page I don't know who this sick neo-Nazi is, but this sickeningly hardcore racist is typical of the EDL and has posted over 300 racist posts on the Sun website about Muslims and Islams, using the most crude racism since Adolf Hitler himself. The EDL are full of people like this.

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Comment 25 | From: Adder | Date: 11 October 2009, 19:33

Question to Nick. How do you feel about the UAF openly and loudly disrupting the 2 minutes silence that the EDL had for the troops who died in Iraq and Afghanistan. Some I admit acknowledged it and remained silent but some, including the woman with the loudspeaker continued to yell abuse at the EDL throughout a minutes silence. As a good friend to some soldiers I find this extremely disrespectful, regardless of your thoughts on the EDL the fact is they were holding a minutes silence for soldiers fighting for this country and that 2 minutes silence should have being respected.

[Nick replies: Well, I wasn't there so I don't feel I can comment on this precise case. I don't know what the woman was saying, whether she was speaking into the megaphone before the two minutes had begun and so was simply continuing her protest whilst not accepting the EDL protest, or indeed, she was delibetarely shouting down the two minute silence.

However, let's get real here. The EDL was using the two-minute silence as a political gimmick to further their anti-Muslim agenda. That opponents of the EDL ignored an EDL decided silence is hardly a surprise and or a big political issue.

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Comment 26 | From: Michael Brooke | Date: 11 October 2009, 22:21

Why does anyone like the UAF have to brand people who want to be British as Nazis.

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Comment 27 | From: chris b | Date: 11 October 2009, 23:07

I think that the UAF are playing a very dangerous game in outsourcing their anti-EDL response to Young male Muslims. In Birmingham a number of white anti-EDl protestors were attacked mistakenly by muslim males who clearly were unsure of who or what the enemy is. But they had been made to believe that it was a race issue therefore white UAF supporters ended up getting attacked. Also I deplore all forms of racism and violence so I would implore the editors of this site to monitor the language used by some of the well meaning contributors on this comments section. Some of it sounds like the language of hate which this website surely wishes to eradicate?

[Nick replies: I have actually tried to allow people of slightly different opinions to raise issues on the topic of the EDL. However, I will not accept racist, fascist, homophobic, sexist and anti-emitic language - and let me tell you there have been several hundred comments which I have had to reject. If the odd one has slipped through then I apologise and I will take more care in the future]

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Comment 28 | From: bethechange | Date: 11 October 2009, 23:47

we need to change the debate. we're losing hearts and minds when we stoop the the EDL level - "they shout, we shout louder". if we're serious about 'hope, not hate' we need to really look at who we're trying to convice and get out and talk to them. surely we do that by ignoring the EDL, and talking to real people about their fears and aspirations. we need to minimise the EDL impact by talking rationally, and ridiculing their hysterical notions and premises. not, by over-reacting, shouting and screaming, so no one can distinguish us from them.

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Comment 29 | From: Jim Carroll | Date: 13 October 2009, 13:54

Agree largely with comment 28. UAF need to get to grips with the fact that the EDL and its offshoots are not the same as the NF of the 1970's or the BNP in its street activist days.Although they certainly have a core of racists and some fascist imput they do not seem to have much idealogical coherence beyond being against Islam to a greater or lesser degree. Going through the members of the Scottish Defence League facebook group this morning I could find very few identifiable members of far right groups and a surprisingly large number of women. Whilst I wouldnt oppose UAF counter demonstrations I think that we have to be more focussed in how we oppose the EDL and to get beyond just seeming to automatically identify people as Nazis when clearly there are broader issuee involved.

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Comment 30 | From: Harry | Date: 13 October 2009, 16:14

Sadly the BBC did not "ignore the "EDL" on last night's Newsnight programme. Called "Under The Skin of the EDL", this documentary sanitised the EDL, and was no match for the original Under The Skin of the BNP documentary a few years back. The BBC virtually said the EDL were themselves harmless, and were only a threat if other groups got involved, playing down the role of football hooligans in the organisation, and didn't show a single Hitler salute on the broadcast. Why oh why to the BBC keep on bigging up the far right? It's as they want the EDL and the BBC to succeed. Surely they don't secretly want this to happen. The EDL aren't even a (supposed) political party, so the BBC are under no obligation to offer the bunch of racist thugs any airtime. I am very angry indeed with the BBC. Maybe they should lose their government funding.

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Comment 31 | From: gary | Date: 13 October 2009, 16:23

As a member of the Leeds Jewish Community and a speaker on behalf of the Zionist cause I deplore the fact that the EDL intend to come to Leeds. I have seen photographs of EDL supporters waving Israeli flags in the direction of Islamic counter demonstrators. Let me absolutely assure my Islamic friends in Leeds that the Jewish community has abosolutely no time for these brainless thugs. This flag waiving has more to do with their misguided belief that "my enemys' enemy is my friend" . But Islam is NOT the enemy of the Jews nor are Jews the enemy of Islam. I am quite sure that the EDL hates Jews as much as any other ethnic minority. Here in Leeds the communities get on pretty well . I am looking forward to attending the counter demo. even though it is on our Sabbath

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Comment 32 | From: JJ | Date: 13 October 2009, 16:29

Nick, Why doesn't the home office find away to look into why the protests are occuring and why right wing movements are growing?. This is not just a problem in the UK - it is happening all over europe. A good example would be Mr Geert Wilders and his anti-islamic party (PVV) in the Netherlands. A lot of genuine people are concerned by the growth of Islam and extremism within this country and europe as a whole. Exreme muslims are not helping. Simply brandashing people as racsist (Islam is a religion NOT a race, therfore giving no baises to the accusations of racism) is the only thing the liberal governments are doing to oppose this. The probelm will only go away when solutions are sort on both sides. I am not in support of the EDL or the UAF - they both appear to be as violent as each other (it also makes me laugh when UAF members appear to be shouting 'Nazi scum!' - they clearly have no idea about Nazi ideology and nazism - it is well known that Hilter was an admirer of Islam and sharia law he makes reference in Mein Kampf). If what you claim happends and the home office stops EDL protests, then by law it would also be obliged to stop the protests of UAF and any other potentially violent protests (including muslims protests in favour of sharia law). This is a democratic society, theroretically everybody is allowed to voice their opinions. The EDL are condoning violence, UAF and extremist muslims (which do exist; look at recent acts of terrorism and murders within both europe and the wider world commited in the name of Islam) are also condoning violence. This site clearly had a problem with the BNP, EDL and other right wing movements - I share this sentement. However, I don't think that throwing eggs at BNP members and inciting violence whenever there is a EDL protest is going to stop them. I know a member of UAF and I know how much he condones violence as method of getting his point accross. The BNP has broken into mainstream politics legally and therefore have as much right as labour etc. to speak their policies and opinions. Encouraging violence and making accusations is only going to make things worse. Going back Geert Wilders for example, it is well known that his popularity increased due to death threats made against him - it is simply proving his point. Muslims in large numbers need to start showing that they are outraged by terrorist atrocities, instead of keeping silent as this is not helping their religion of peace claims. Only then will the right wing stop growing. Sadly, I don't believe that Islam is a peaceful religion (so far there is much more evidence to support this statement than the contary), and therefore feel that the short period of European tolerance is very quickly coming to an end. Look all around europe at the sad growth of the right and down right extreme right parties. The current governments need to start asking why is this not going away, and coming up with real policies not just saying the word racist and intollerant which due to political correctness gone mad are starting to look like jokes and lose all meaning due to over use, thus overshadowing real racism.

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Meet Tommy Robinson leader of the English Defence League

What happens when the EDL comes to town

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