Comments

Comment 1 | From: Leicester UAF | Date: 30 July 2010, 22:29

We very much respect the hard and often dangerous work done by Hope Not Hate during the election, however, this is a terrible, terrible mistake by them. The only thing that has stopped the EDL becoming a truly mass movement is the efforts of Unite Against Fascism and every other anti-fascist and community organisation that has attended the counter-protests. Online petitions and sending postcards to MPs is all good, but there really is no substitute for people getting out on the streets to defend their communities from racism and violence. If the HNH petition fails, you have effectively led all of the people who signed it up a blind alley, feeling hopeless and drifting into apathy. It wasn't online petitions that ultimately stopped the NF in the 70's - it was thousands of people taking to the streets to say NO to racists and fascists. Learn the lessons of history - retract this article and tell everyone to sign the petition AND get down to the counter-demonstration on 28 August.

Comment 2 | From: Nick | Date: 31 July 2010, 07:25

Firstly can I say that we want an open and honest debate about this. We will accept alternative views and criticism as long as they are done in a comradely and constructive way.

In reply to Leicester UAF, the question is whether a counter demo is the best solution in this instance. We believe it is not. A demo is a tactic and as such it is not always the only approach.

Bradford is in a volatile state and a riot will not help anyone who believes in a peaceful multicultural society. We owe it to the people who live in the society not to make a situation worse for simple political dogma. In 2001 the anti-fascist movement called people out on the streets to opposed an NF march. 200 people went to prison and every one of them were Asian. Bradford is still scared from those riots.

It is fine encouraging people out to protest but it is often not the people who organise demos, or who come in from out of town, who get arrested and suffer the consequences.

The vast majority of people in Bradford do not want the EDL demo but at the same time they do not want a counter protest either. This is why we are spending our time campaigning to get the EDL protest stopped.

It is easy to say that you can both campaign against a demo happening whilst also building a counter protest but that is not the case. You have to prioritise and you have to concentrate your resources. We are focusing on getting the EDL protest stopped and the UAF are prioritising building a counter protest. Yes, we are putting all our hope in getting the demo banned and this leaves us with no option B. However the UAF apporach is to basically accept an EDL demo is happening and counter organise.

But my question is will a counter demo actually stop the EDL march from happening. No, of course it won't. It might make us feel better and yes, it will show our opposition to the EDL, but it will not stop them.

The EDL has asked the police for a demo. This is the first time they have tried this since Luton a year ago. Since then they have just called for static protests which legally are far harder to stop. Our action - petitions and community mobilisation - stopped the Luton demo and I believe we can do it again.

If the EDL march then we have lost. They want to go to Bradford in order to provoke a riot. The people of Bradford, including the Muslim community and trade unions, don't won't a counter protest precisely because everyone is scared of a repetition of 2001. Let's listen to them.

Comment 3 | From: Muzzy | Date: 31 July 2010, 08:24

Thank you HNH for giving us the opportunity to state our opinions. First of all fire vs fire makes both sides look bad so i do think the "Gandhi" approach is actually the best way to expose the true nature of EDL's aggression in these circumstances. Because EDL's motive it so provoke/cause a fight. Can you imagine on on 28th August the streets are completely empty (except cameras, LOTS OF CAMERAS!!) and the EDL march in with no one to provoke and no one to fight, they will probably start fighting each other, or perhaps the local lamp posts might get it! Some racist graffiti on the wall? and perhaps even the odd brick through the shop window. But at least no one will be hurt in riot or arrested (except EDL members of course) & more importantly people will see the EDL for who they are. However it will only work if you can convince ALL the people to stay off the streets including the locals on that day. Has HnH convinced all the young men in bradford to stay at home? have they managed to convince the UAF? Thank you.

Comment 4 | From: from the North | Date: 31 July 2010, 10:31

Hi Nick, I welcome your idea and I think that a counter demo is not what we need in Bradford. My question here is how achievable this is. We know that where there is an action there is also a reaction and that's nature. The best solution here is to put the presure on to the Police and the other authorities to have this edl demo banned!

Comment 5 | From: Nick | Date: 31 July 2010, 11:27

In this case a ban is achievable. The EDL have asked for a march in Bradford city centre. The Home Secretary has the power to ban demonstrations. The problem in the past is that the EDL has called static protests which, we have been told, are much harder to ban.

So in this instance a ban is possible so that's just another reason why we should prioritise putting pressure on the Home Secretary. That means building genuine large scale community action before the EDL come to town.

Comment 6 | From: Ryan | Date: 31 July 2010, 18:55

Reluctantly I have to agree with the call not to counter-demonstrate, but not because I'm worried about the reaction of the EDL: I'm not half as worried about that as I am of the reaction of the police, whose handling of previous counter-demos has proven them to be thoroughly racist to the core. They have it in for us and would love nothing better than to wade into us batons drawn and then paint us as the thugs.

Comment 7 | From: Mark | Date: 1 August 2010, 07:41

Well done Hope not Hate. On the bag of the extraordinary campaign in Barking which mobilised unprecedented for a community-based campaign you've got it right again in Bradford. The successes at Cable Street and Lewisham were historic, precisely. They were secured in different times against different opposition. The strategy to win the broadest possible support in Bradford itself to secure a ban on the EDL is correct. The EDL are a small group whose only intent is to provoke trouble. Often dubbed 'football hooligans' they have in fact only ever attracted a tiny proportion of even this group. They are on the margins yet dangerous because of their obvious commitment to violence. The petition, the door-to-door campaigning, the inter-faith and cross party support. This is the basis of an historic community led campaign whole others seem to think filling a few buses to march around town is a viable anti-fascist strategy. Hope not Hate proved in Barking, and now again in Bradford, to be the right campaign at the right time,. I'm proud to be a supporter.

Comment 8 | From: Dave Matthews | Date: 1 August 2010, 14:19

It is to be welcomed that Nick has openly explained HnH's view and invited debate but I disagree strongly with that view.

In effect Nick calls for those opposed to the EDL's racism to vacate the streets and presumably allow the EDL to do as they please. 'Vacating the streets' would have to be done not only for most of the day but also into the evening for, as we know, the EDL usually leave many gangs of the supporters in the town to try and stir up violence.

HnH, elders in the Muslim community, the police and whoever else backs HnH's call not to challenge the EDL, are simply not strong enough to successfully bring about a de facto desertion of Bradford by Muslim people for the whole day. Many Muslim/ Asian people will not want to cower in their own homes whilst racists go on the rampage in the town. Unless one expects every Muslim to vacate the town many will inevitably be out in the town at risk of being isolated, provoked and attacked by the EDL.

Nick, do you think you can stop all these possible points of flare-ups? I don't think you can. The 2001 events should not be repeated but we have to be realistic about what is possible. If experienced organisers don't shape the response to such provocations then things can get dangerously out of hand. But you won't shape a response by not being there! What we need to do is try and organise a peaceful, well-stewarded and massive multi-racial protest to the EDL with the largest possible working class mobilisation against them.

But if by some incredible fluke you were successful and that the EDL did march and drink their way through an empty town, what would be the result? The EDL would treat as a great victory 'reclaiming Bradford from the Muslims'. And they would be back, again and again until they get the riot they undoubtedly want.

The Tower Hamlets EDL protest was, at least in part, called off because the EDL thought they would be massively outnumbered. Some have speculated that they would call of the Bradford demo for the same reason. Your call at this time will only encourage the EDL to go ahead with their event in Bradford. An anti-racist movement has to find a way of preventing individuals or small groups of Muslims being isolated: recognising and championing their right to be in their own town and not racially intimidated or attacked. This fight against the EDL should not be allowed to become white racists on one side and Muslims on the other.

If multi-racial organisations such as trade unions and Hope not Hate are not there, it only increases the likelihood that what happens in Bradford can be portrayed as a racial conflict and not a conflict about racism. If the EDL are NOT outnumbered by a multi-racial mobilisation on August 28th then they will be back again and again until people in the town can no longer tolerate the continual provocations. There are tremendous challenges for those involved in organising a counter-protest to get people out in sufficient numbers to prevent the EDL having the success they want.

There is a need for a well stewarded and non-violent protest. There has to be an absence of inflammatory rhetoric that was a part of the problem in 2001. The Stop and Racism network http://srfnetwork.org/ has recently put a statement on our website by those organising in Bradford/ Leeds to oppose the EDL on the streets of Bradford on August 28th. They should be supported.

Comment 9 | From: Jo | Date: 1 August 2010, 18:20

I doubt that a call not to protest will be adhered to in full. There will still be a riot as Muslim youth are forced to stand alone in defence of their Mosque. They'll be defeated and the EDL will reassure itself that violence is the way forward. What hope do we have of inducting Muslim youth into broader social struggles if we do not fight beside them when it counts?

Comment 10 | From: Nick | Date: 1 August 2010, 21:22

But surely the best way to protect the Muslim community in Bradford, and in fact all people in Bradford, is to stop the EDL coming to the city in the first place. Let's have a bit of honesty to this debate.

No previous anti-EDL protest in England has stopped an EDL protest. Why do some people think a counter-protest will be different?

Comment 11 | From: Halshall | Date: 1 August 2010, 21:42

Nick your comment #'10'. 'No previous anti-EDL protest in England has stopped an EDL protest.' This is simply wrong ! In Tower Hamlets there was a mass mobilsation by 'East London United' against the EDL which by their own admission scared them off. Soon after a similar event in Wembley was also cancelled by the EDL for the same reason. Get your facts right.

Comment 12 | From: Nick | Date: 1 August 2010, 22:26

Halshall, this is totally incorrect. The EDL demo in Tower Hamlets was cancelled after the Troxy withdrew the booking for an Islamic conference.

The EDL event in Wembley was cancelled after the controversial Islamic cleric who was supposed to speak was banned from coming into the country.

Comment 13 | From: Jason Hunter | Date: 2 August 2010, 08:15

I share the dread of the EDL being allowed to march in Bradford. After the riots, communities have pulled together to improve the town. The town could be irretrievably damaged by a repeat performance, or at least take much longer to recover . It was the fear and tension of that time that allowed the BNP to break through in the first place. Whilst most people express horror at such divisive violence, a sufficient minority to give them a base blame the minority community and take sides against. We have to avoid such confrontations if we want to stem and reverse racism. I recently attended the Bolton event where I was told the UAF had agreed to work with local anti-racists to present a contrast, our peaceful and inclusive event versus their bigotry and violence. Yet whatever the plan, from the inception, it was purely as an exercise in fighting for space. Whilst heavy handed policing was clearly evident, ordinary people looking on would not have realised this. They would have just seen two mobs apparently trying to have a fight. It was only the fact that the demonstration there was totally obsured by buildings from most Bolotoners that there was not a stronger reaction against the UAF tactics, and therefore from some, a stronger sympathy for the EDL. We have to stop this march in Bradford, but if we fail, we have to develop other ways of making our point. If one fifth of the anti-fascists in Bolton had instead devoted 2 hours to leafletting we could have covered every house in Bolton that day with anti-EDL material.

Comment 14 | From: John | Date: 4 August 2010, 20:32

This all comes down to Cable Street, doesn't it? What made Cable Street a success was the ensuing loss of face with the electorate experienced by Oswald Mosley, not the fact itself of physically preventing the march. The success of a counter-demo or otherwise will be judged in the long run by its impact on the wider electorate - can we be sure the ant-fascist movement will not come away discredited in their eyes, as it did to some extent in Bolton? The counter-demo at Cable Street delivered a resounding victory, and those involved have my total respect. However, we must not let this success lead us into a "one size fits all" approach to combatting the far right.

Comment 15 | From: esci insurance | Date: 5 October 2010, 09:39

Marion is the greatest?!?

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